SPOILERS: Episode discussion: Serenity (Pilot)

[sadimac]

Okay, have at it.

[Grinder]

My two cents?

I 'accidently' saw 'The Train Job' first, and then the Pilot. I got into the characters a lot faster watching TTJ, though there are some of the most memorable character introductions in the Pilot (Wash's dinosaur intro is sure to be a TV classic!)

[Jecca]

I'm watching right now, for review.

My husband saw TTJ first, and got kind of a weird impression of the series.  I was unable to watch the series when it was on the air, due to a class that night.  Ergo, I saw "Serenity:  The Film" first.  Then, courtesy of Netflix, we had intense sessions over several nights of building and addressing wedding invitations.

I was wondering:  does anyone know where Joss filmed the Battle of Serenity Valley?  Mal won my heart when he burst out laughing after taking down the Alliance fighter.

[daedreams]

I first watched Firefly (starting with the pilot) while waiting for netflix to send me my disks of Angel Season 5. So I was already in a Whedon-frame-of-mind.

I remember thinking that the first half dragged on quite a bit, but was completely hooked when Kaylee was shot. Jayne's moment of quiet contemplation while looking through the sickbay window was gut-wrenchingly sweet and so telling. This was after he rudely embarrassed her at the supper table. It's just how families are - crude and fighting and getting on each other's nerves, but when it really matters, the love shines through. (god, that was sappy - sorry)

Oddly, the moment I fell in love with Mal has not been mentioned here before, I think. It was when he shot Patience's horse. Now, I love all animals, don't get me wrong, but it was such a unexpected move and seemingly the right thing to do in such a situation. Still - nobody purposely shoots the horse! Brilliant.

That's all I can think of for now.

[Otter]

Oddly, the moment I fell in love with Mal has not been mentioned here before, I think. It was when he shot Patience's horse. Now, I love all animals, don't get me wrong, but it was such a unexpected move and seemingly the right thing to do in such a situation. Still - nobody purposely shoots the horse! Brilliant.

I love how exasperated he looks just before he shoots the horse, like Patience hasn't really given him a choice.

[Jecca]

I was trying to get myself back into the frame of mind I was in when I first watched this - and I remember reacting very badly to Simon when he threatened not to treat Kaylee if Mal didn't change course.

I'm used to feeling things and having opinions that occasionally swim counter to the "norm" (fi there is such a thing), so I'll put this out there:  I was very bothered by a theme that came up in the tense moments when we're wondering if Mal's going to change course, and recurred throughout the series.  Mal's big raison d'etre is his freedom:  Serenity is many things to him, but a primary one is "the place where nobody tells me what to do".  He's outspokenly anti-Alliance, what we might term in Earth-that-was a "libertarian".  Yet his world and his view of the ship as running orderly depends *strongly* on the crew obeying his orders, and doing what he tells them to do.  The reality usually works out differently, but - although Mal doesn't rule on the decor of the crew quarters, or what they wear - Mal would create inside Serenity a place where eight other people are supposed to make sure that what he says goes.  The irony, and I would say hypocrisy IMHO of this, keep Mal from being my favorite character.  Don't get me wrong:  he's in second place because he has so many other wonderful characteristics.  But - and I don't care whether it's his military background or how he was brought up or what - what seems to be a blind spot bothers me.

I sometimes wonder if Joss would have ever dealt with this later in the series.

[sadimac]

Mal's big raison d'etre is his freedom:  Serenity is many things to him, but a primary one is "the place where nobody tells me what to do".  He's outspokenly anti-Alliance, what we might term in Earth-that-was a "libertarian".  Yet his world and his view of the ship as running orderly depends *strongly* on the crew obeying his orders, and doing what he tells them to do.  The reality usually works out differently, but - although Mal doesn't rule on the decor of the crew quarters, or what they wear - Mal would create inside Serenity a place where eight other people are supposed to make sure that what he says goes.

My first few thoughts about this are...

that Mal doesn't force anyone to be on his crew. As opposed to The Alliance which brought the other planets (moons, whatever) into the fold through force of arms. There's a long way to travel between "a chain of command" and tyranny (however benevolent). Don't most "outlaws" have pretty sharply defined power structures?

that although Mal expresses opinions (often pretty rudely) about other's lifestyles, he doesn't "meddle," as River puts it. Doesn't pry into the crew's minds (a la River's "school") or demand an accounting for all their past deeds (a la papers and IDs for everyone). He demands loyalty and obedience in those things that affect him, while The Alliance seems to feel that every little thing is their business to order.

Those things said, in my relatively pleasant and safe life, I'd rather not have someone like Mal. Give me leaders who bow down to anything to preserve life.

[Jecca]

Okay, already falling behind :-).  I blame the Labor Day weekend and...well, now that F@tM is over, I should, in theory, have more time.  Ha.

Can we have the new topic for "The Train Job", nice moderator people, please?

[Sarrava]

Can't everyone add a new topic? 

[Browncoat182]

The big damn pilot was awesome, and since I like Joss' Dialogue rich style, I loved it when I finally saw it.

With regard to previous comments about Mal, I think we have found the one area that Joss failed to sell.

In latter episodes, and particularly in the movie mals says That he may not be the best leader , but they have to follow.

I think despite the shows portrayal of him as war hero, captain, etc...I think Mal sees himself as a faliure, explaining part of his "depression". He blames the slaughter of Serenity Valley on the alliance to be sure, but on himself as well.

The comment is often made that Mal's plans don't  really work out like they are supposed to. And its often depends on MAl getting cornered before his more Ta- Da moments occur.

Anyway just a thought.

[Gamerdude]

Don't most "outlaws" have pretty sharply defined power structures?

Having done quite a bit of reading on the "Old West" when I was preparing to run an "Aces & Eights" campaign, most outlaws were either on their own or were at best a 'gang' with a leader etc.  But there were no real large power structures.

Now today, yeah there tends to be huge power structures, a gift of modern technology and rapid communications.

In the 'verse, I can't speak for in the core worlds but out on the rim it's back to a mixed bag. Patience's group ends with her and seems to only be on her moon, Adelai Niska is in an orbiting station but his organization doesn't seem to extend beyond that planet (Serenity is in orbit and keeping the planet between them and the station).

Well, that's my 2 cr.

[RionaEire]

I don't think Mal is opposed to all government, I think its a matter of degree and that makes him realistic in my opinion, most people think things to a point.  Mal's okay with a chain of command, with there being someone in charge.  Its "big" government that seems to bother him, he doesn't like it when government controls every aspect of things and when it extends its power without permission, as it did with the rim planets, just coming in and imposing itself on them the way it did.  I think that is what bothers him.  So I don't think he's hipocritical.

[TallCard]

Really enjoyed the pilot, but I was completely hooked when Mal completely fed up, marches onboard and shoots Dobson without a word. Awesome scene.